Letters, We Get Mail, CCCL

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Bill_N ]

Date: Thu, March 28, 2013 5:09 am       (Answered 29 March 2013)
From: "william N."
Subject: Young Woman found Dead After Meeting Man at NA Meeting

Hi Orange,

Here's a story of a poor young person struggling with drugs. She completes rehab, goes to an NA meeting and meets a man whom her mother believes was her downfall. One more 12-Step fatality.


I always enjoy your site and your bird photos & stories. I hope you have a beautiful spring.


Hello Bill,

Thanks for the letter and the tip. That is really sad. Obviously, the police detectives have not figured it all out yet, but I guess they will. It would be jumping to conclusions to say that she went to N.A. and then she got killed, so N.A. caused her death (pos hoc, ergo propter hoc), however, that may well turn out to be the case.

The mother of the girl, Dee Lynch, said that her daughter met a boy at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting. "That was the beginning of her downfall," said Lynch, 51, of Levittown.

This story certainly indicates the danger inherent to going to a meeting of drug addicts, ex-convicts, and psychopaths, and expecting to find loving friendships and good advice and trustworthy counselors.

Murdering a young woman always strikes me as especially sad. Maybe it's just my biological imperative, but I can't help but think that she could have been some man's wife and lover. She could have had a full and useful and meaningful life. Instead, some asshole just kills her. What a waste.

This story bears watching to see what the police learn.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

P.S.: Further searching yielded a few more stories:

local ABC news:


*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     The way to love everything is to realize that it
**     might be lost.

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Andrew_C ]

Date: Sat, March 30, 2013 8:27 pm       (Answered 3 April 2013)
From: "Andrew C."
Subject: Snake Oil of Steppism on the job

Hi, Orange.

I've been thinking about Wilson's Step Cult a lot lately because of an episode at work and because "the program" is now advertised on the radio here. I wonder when they started that; years ago they always claimed it was a program of attraction, not promotion. Orange, keep up the good work. Your site is helping people, and hopefully sending them down the road of the great journey of reality.

Lately the moonbeams and gibberish of the Step Cult intruded upon my place of work, and I was freshly reminded of how counter-productive and yes, harmful the Step fraud truly is. We had a guy in our department who was bitterly resentful about the past, self-piteous, angry, sullen, always quick to take offense and ready to confront, and apparently also very unlucky in love. He was involved in some type of a bar fight in which women, broken glass, the county jail and the state police were all featured.......and then we started to hear the timeless cultic crap which betrays immersion in the Step quackery: "I have a disease! I have a disease that wants to see me dead! My sponsor says....! I have to get goin' on my 4th Step! There but for the grace of God! KISS! Take the cotton out of your ears and stuff it into yer mouth!"

Then he started to volunteer highlights of his "alcoholic insanity" to all of us, which I realized immediately were his rehearsals for his 90 day "qualification" or drunkalogue before a live audience of the fellowship.

Well, we never found out if he made his 90 days and got his coin. He was on the second shift, and he left a note on the manager's desk explaining, "I can no longer work at this business. This business as well as this region are threats to my sobriety...." From the grapevine (npi) we heard that he left the state (took a geographic as they say in the Step Cult). He walked away from a position of authority and responsibility without informing anyone. The physical plant of a business employing hundreds and serving thousands was abandoned without security or supervision. There could have been a fire or a flood or similar emergency, but he didn't give a rat's ass because it "endangered his sobriety".

Steppism bills itself as "a bridge back to reality" but as this man's case clearly shows that is their biggest lie of all. The guy had psychological problems. Maybe low self esteem. Maybe chemical imbalances. Maybe lack of education. He had legal problems. Interpersonal problems. He had financial problems. But AA convinced him that his _only_ problem was "the disease of alcoholism" and the only solution was meetings, meetings, meetings.

His sponsor very likely told him that anything that threatened his sobriety had to go as a matter of self preservation---this is like a blank check and a visa to irresponsibility and the shunning of adulthood. It is flight from reality.

So what did working the Steps and the Program deliver to this poor guy?

  • Perhaps.......he isn't drinking.
  • He has no job, income nor hope of unemployment comp.

  • He will be a fugitive if he doesn't go back to court.

  • He swallowed the magic bullet "disease concept" and might never address his real problems.

  • He is more isolated from reality than ever.

  • He has no relationships now; he only has instant Step Cult pseudo relationships.

Joyous Easter, (your friends have plenty of eggs)

Andy C.

Hello Andy,

Thanks for the letter and the sad story. That says so much. About all that I can do is agree.

There are some things that are just so obvious that they are self-evident. Like one judge said, "There are some things, like finding trout in your milk, that are just self-evident." Obviously, that poor guy needed a good psychiatrist, not an A.A. sponsor. But A.A. hides behind the self-aggrandizing line in the Big Book,

Here was a book that said that I could do something that all these doctors and priests and ministers and psychiatrists that I'd been going to for years couldn't do!
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, page 473.

So A.A. sponsors imagine that they can cure cases that the doctors cannot cure. And with Bill Wilson's quack medicine and Buchmanite cult religion, yet. Fat chance.

About the advertising, I don't know when it started either, but I can remember 12 or 13 years ago, seeing A.A. commercials on late-late-night TV, and hearing commercials for Al-Anon on the radio ("We want our lives back." So join Al-Anon and confess what a bitch you are, and how you drove hubby to drink.)

Oh well, have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     If only Bill Wilson had gotten the right medications,
**     we wouldn't have the 12-Step quack cure killing people today.
**     A.A. quackery, straight from the horse's mouth:
**     "I have no doubt that a man who has cured himself of the lust for alcohol
**     has a far greater power for curing alcoholism than has a doctor."
**       ==  William G. Wilson, Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, page 320.
**     What's the difference between an Islamic fanatic in training,
**     diligently studying the Koran for justifications to be a suicide
**     bomber, and an A.A. member diligently studying the Big Book
**     for reasons to be a misguided A.A. fanatic and lie to sick people
**     about cures?

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Jennifer ]

Date: Mon, April 1, 2013 10:15 am       (Answered 3 April 2013)
From: "Jennifer"
Subject: predators anonymous


This is Jennifer again. Something that's been on my mind is why more victims of fellow members don't come forward. Where I live there is a spinoff of Clancy's group. One of my boyfriends I had in AA, (which I now call Predators Anonymous, lol) was asked by many men in AA to do male porn. This was at a meeting that attorneys, doctors etc attended. Two of my female friends in AA had their children molested by men they were dating in the program.

Then look what happened to me over and over again by the old timer men.

I had highly educated sponsors that were true believers of the AA nonsense. Just because you are educated in a certain field doesn't make a person intelligent.

I wish more people that have been victims of fellow members would come forward, but unfortunately I think they ultimately blame themselves. Its quite sad really.

Anyway keep at it. Love your site. :)


Hello Jennifer,

Thanks for the letter and the compliments, and the question. I guess that people don't report abuse in A.A. for the same reason as most women don't report rapes (and in fact, it is sometimes the same crime). I hear that something like 80% or 90% of all rapes are never reported. The women don't want to be tortured again by a police interrogation and then a defense attorney grilling. And they are afraid that they cannot prove the crime. It's just she said versus he said. Wasn't she secretly willing and inviting it?

And yes, they do blame themselves. That is shown in a lot of the standard cult characteristics:

On top of that, A.A. has the advantage that people are afraid that they will die if they leave the organization. A.A. is very good at Phobia Induction, so some people imagine that they just have to put up with the abuse in order to survive. Then they rationalize and minimize and deny and think that it isn't so bad. And that was just one bad apple... The rest of the organization is okay.

You are right that being highly educated does not necessarily make someone intelligent, or wise, or sane. Synanon had a doctor member who performed vasectomies on all of the young men so that the cult leader Chuck Dederich wouldn't be bothered by crying babies. And Jonestown had a doctor and a nurse who mixed up the cyanide Flavor-Aid for everyone to drink. Hard to believe, but true. Even highly educated people can still desire a guaranteed ticket to Heaven, and they are often willing to give up their logical thinking minds to get it.

Oh well, have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     Never was there a study that substance abusers were suffering
**     from a lack of spirituality, thus being the reason they got
**     addicted. This is how AA approaches the problem, condemning
**     the addict as being spiritually sick without any proof.
**     ==  Submitted by SallyJ on February 3, 2013 — 9:26pm.
**         Comments to Psychology Today article,
**         "Does 12-step Treatment Work by Inducing PTSD?"
**         http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/addicted-brains/201301/

June 27, 2012, Wednesday: The Fernhill Wetlands

Canada Goose goslings
The younger Family of 6

Canada Goose goslings
Part of the younger Family of 6, and Gus' Family

Canada Goose goslings
Gus and Family

Canada Goose goslings
Another Canada Goose pair, coming to get some munchies

[More gosling photos below, here.]

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Monica ]

Date: Sat, March 30, 2013 10:27 pm       (Answered 3 April 2013)
From: "Monica R."
Subject: idea for getting the word out on AMAZON about AA

I gave the BB and 12 & 12 bad reviews like 1 star and wrote a scathing review. Please feel to go to the BB and 12 & 12 on amazon. my name there is maliagirl.

I realized many people read these comments and they were all so stepper filled with love bombing. We can do our part by giving them our view as well and use it as a place to speak the truth about AA.



Hello Monica,

Thanks for the note. What a clever idea. Give the A.A. "Big Book" a negative book report. But of course. And there is so much to criticize, from the exploitative Buchmanite cult religion to the medical quackery to Bill Wilson's insane ravings about how practicing Buchmanism and confessing his sins made him feel like he was riding a rocket into the fourth dimension...

And then of course there is the horrendous failure rate that comes from actually practicing what is in the book. And the death rate. And the divorce rate. And the suicide rate.

Here is a little ammunition:

And then there are all of the contradictions where Bill Wilson talked out of both sides of his mouth on every issue. And all of the inherent bait-and-switch tricks. Oh yes, there is much to talk about.

Oh, and we can do the same thing with Bill's second book, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions", too.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly."
**         == Big Book, Fwd to the 2nd Edition
**            [We don't have the only solution]
**     "For most cases, there is virtually no other solution."
**         == Big Book, page 43
**            [There is no other solution]
**     "...every A.A. group can manage its affairs exactly as it pleases..."
**         12&12, page 146
**            [Do what you want]
**     "...the group, exactly like the individual, must eventually conform..."
**         12&12, page 146
**            [Do what you're told]
**                  (Thank you, "Iamnotastatistic", for those.)

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Marcus ]

Date: Wed, April 3, 2013 11:27 am       (Answered 5 April March 2013)
From: "Marcus M."
Subject: [Orange Papers] http://moynihaninstitute.blogspot.com/2012/11/aa-k...

Marcus M. posted in Orange Papers


The Moynihan Institute: AA kills more drunks than it helps


Thanks for the link, Marcus. That is quite good. And it is a condemnation of A.A. from a 22-year A.A. oldtimer who has gone to between 5000 and 7000 meetings.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     For me to sit with a new guy and tell him he needs God and he needs
**     to work the steps in order to save his life is tantamount to murder
**     or at least some form of assisted suicide.
**       ==  posted by Rant at 9:37 am, Monday, November 5, 2012, on
**         http://moynihaninstitute.blogspot.com/2012/11/aa-kills-more-drunks-than-it-helps.html

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Bruce ]

Date: Wed, April 3, 2013 6:13 pm       (Answered 5 April 2013)
From: "Bruce S."
Subject: Your site is pretty immense, so I apologize if I missed it

Your site is pretty immense so I apologize if I missed it, but if AA is not the answer, then what is?


Hello Bruce,

Thanks for the letter. At the risk of sounding like I'm joking or being sarcastic (which I'm not), I'll ask, "When you say, 'What is the answer,' I have to ask, 'What is the question?'"

You asked for an answer without saying what your question is.

Now I'm going to make an educated guess, and assume that you must mean, "How does someone quit drinking alcohol without participating in A.A.?"

The answer to that is simple: You just quit. Quitting is often very easy. You can quit drinking in five minutes flat. I did. (That story is here and here.)

What is difficult is staying quit. Like Mark Twain joked, "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it thousands of times." The same goes for quitting drinking or drugging or smoking, or any other bad habit. At any A.A. or N.A. meeting, you will hear somebody bragging about how many clean-and-sober-1-day coins and keytags he has collected. But it took him forever to get to a year, if he ever did.

So how do you stay quit? And why would someone backslide and go back to drinking or drugging or smoking after he has quit and stopped the miserable routine?

The problem is that people are of two minds: On the one hand, they want to quit drinking or drugging or smoking or over-eating, so that the pain and discomfort and expense and inconvenience will stop. But on the other hand, they want the fun and pleasure to continue. Part of them still wants to indulge.

To make matters more difficult, after you quit your bad habits, the craving center in the base brain will constantly complain and argue and beg and wheedle for you to consume more drugs or intoxicants. "The Lizard Brain Addiction Monster"" has a zillion excuses that say why a little more drinking or drugging or smoking will be okay. (So click on that link and read about that. The knowledge in that web page was a life-saver to me.)

To really quit and stay quit, you have to get your head straightened out and be very clear about just what you really want. As the Sufis call it, you need to set your will, and set your intent. Just sort-of-wanting-to-quit rarely ever works out well.

Now this is where the various kinds of rational recovery come into the picture. They can teach you things that help with that. Note that I used lower-case letters there. Rational Recovery, with capital letters, is one kind of rational recovery. But there are also SMART and SOS and Lifering and WFS and HAMS, and more, and they all have something to offer. The entire list of them is here:

SMART teaches a few techniques like how to recognize and reject irrational thoughts that slip into your mind and drive you crazy and get you into trouble. They also teach a "risk-reward ratio" analysis that helps to straighten out your thinking about drinking. (I prefer to call it a "Cost-Benefit Analysis", which is what accountants call a projected business plan.) That is where you compare the likely pleasure and the pain that will come from various possible courses of action, and decide which hurts less, and which gets you more of what you want. I already wrote up a couple of examples:

Then, I discussed various things that helped here: How did you get to where you are? There are a couple of lists of links to letters and discussions of what works, and how well they work.

Also see the Top 10 reading list for some good books that say a variety of things. There is some good stuff there: Top 10 Reading List.

Good luck now, and don't hesistate to write back if you have more questions.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     No "treatment" works on people who don't want to quit.
**     "No treatment" works on people who do want to quit.

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Jim_W ]

Date: Tue, April 2, 2013 6:38 pm
From: "Jim W."
Subject: Re: [Orange Papers] 5 years sober no props from the people I got sober with...

because I stopped going to meetings. Somehow I don't "count" as a sober person anymore.

I stopped getting coins quite a few years before I actually left. I also stopped listening to the pompous ass old-timers. Not long after I left, this local AA old-timer guru called me up. Not to see if I was doing OK, but to see if I'd crashed & burned yet. First thing he asks is if I'm drinking. When I say no, I'm actually doing really well. He says "Well, things aren't always what they seem. What's your spiritual condition?" I told him to fuck off and hung up on him. I guess he got the answer he wanted.


@Jim: about the old-timer guru calling you up to see if you had relapsed yet: They really are like ghouls, aren't they? Seeing if you are dead so that they can feed on you. Downright spooky. Reminds me of an undertaker who wants to drum up some more business.

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     Schadenfreude is the least-becoming of joys.

April 21, 2013, Sunday: The Fernhill Wetlands

Fast forwards to present time: The first goslings of the year showed up today.

Canada Goose goslings
The new Family of 7. The father is in the lead.

Canada Goose goslings
Those babies are getting their first taste of whole wheat bread.

Canada Goose goslings

Canada Goose goslings

[The story of the goslings continues here.]

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Ray_S ]

Date: Fri, April 5, 2013 8:55 am       (Answered 22 April 2013)
From: "Ray S."
Subject: [Orange Papers] Scientology-linked rehab Narconon under fire from two former executives

Ray Smith posted in Orange Papers

Scientology-linked rehab Narconon under fire from two former executives


By Anna Schecter
Rock Center
In the wake of a Rock Center with Brian Williams report on three deaths at a Scientology-linked drug treatment center in Oklahoma, the former president of the facility, and a former executive at a Narconon facility in Michigan have come forward to expose ...


Hi again, Ray,

Thanks for the tip. I saw that. Impressive. And appalling. It's disgusting how "loopholes" in the law allow gangs of criminals to foist quack medicine on sick people and and commit fraud and bilk them out of millions of dollars. And even kill the patients. When, oh when will the Attorney General get his act together and shut down Scientology?

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**   "Imagine a church so dangerous, you must sign a release
**   form before you can receive its "spiritual assistance."
**   This assistance might involve holding you against your
**   will for an indefinite period, isolating you from
**   friends and family, and denying you access to
**   appropriate medical care. You will of course be billed
**   for this treatment — assuming you survive it. If not,
**   the release form absolves your caretakers of all
**   responsibility for your suffering and death.
**   Welcome to the Church of Scientology."
**                 — Dr. Dave Touretzky

UPDATE: Spring, 2014: Unfortunately, the correspondent Ray Smith, has died from cancer. He worked hard for a long time at getting the truth out, and ran the Yahoo group "12-Step Free" for many years. May he have a good time in the next dimension.

[The previous letter from Meatbag is here.]

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Meatbag ]

Date: Sat, April 6, 2013 2:37 pm       (Answered 22 April 2013)
From: Meatbag
Subject: Re: Another Bullshit Comment from the Peanut Gallery

I think my last email got lost in the spam filter. There's probably a copy on my laptop still, but I've stopped using it, for reasons I'll explain below.

For a couple of weeks now, I've been having an issue where the charger stopped charging the laptop, so I kept having to fiddle with it until it started charging again. I took it in to Best Buy, and it turned out the A/C port was loose and I would have to send it in for repairs. For fuck's sake, I sent it in a month ago! That was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back right there. Laptops shouldn't need major repairs every year when they're still covered by a warranty. Fucking hell, the 20th century laptop is still ticking over five years after I got it (I did manage to get freedos installed, by the way), and the only hardware problems it has are dead speakers and battery.

Hi again, Meatbag,

It's good to hear from you. It sounds like you are doing well.

Yes, the quality of things is just steadily going downhill. (Is it just a coincidence that it's all made in China now?) I am currently running two big, heavy, old Viewsonic CRT-type monitors, an E75f and an E771, right at my left elbow, each on top of its own system, one for Linux and one for Windoze. They have to be at least 15 years old, if not 20, and they still work perfectly. Four years ago, because these Viewsonic monitors are so good, I bought two brand-new flat-screen Viewsonic monitors, and both died within two years. Like right after they went out of warranty. Go figure. So I'm back to using the old monitors, which act like they will work perfectly for another 15 years.

I was planning on selling the laptop off for whatever money I could get and grabbing an old (but still 21st century; 10+ lb laptops don't count as portable anymore) thinkpad off of ebay, shaking my dad down for at least some of the money he owed me if necessary. I wanted nothing more to do with the laptop and was willing to trade specs for reliability.

Dad had a different idea, though. He repaid what he owed me and got me a birthday present at the same time. He had me pick out something to replace the laptop, and I picked a tablet (the budget allowed for either a decent tablet or a low-end laptop). Since this was from a Rent-A-Center type website (Dad can't afford to buy anything up-front), Dad is gonna end up paying twice what the tablet is actually worth, and he knows it. Now that is love.

The tablet is a Dell XPS 10. It's pretty sweet. When I was looking at tablets, I mostly focused on finding one that had a keyboard dock (virtual keyboard won't cut it for IRC) and was something Dad could afford. The tablets I noticed that fit that description were Windows RT. I wasn't expecting much from the OS, but it is surprisingly good. It's a walled garden, and not one with a vast selection of apps.

But, much like Windows 8, it has a desktop mode. Due to this being for ARM systems, though, most native Windows programs won't run. And Microsoft only bothered porting Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office. Jailbreak it, though, and the program selection is better:


Still not a particularly big selection, but very versatile. Enough to make desktop mode useful as a laptop replacement, in my opinion. And it works well enough as a straight tablet. I like being able to switch between tablet mode and pseudolaptop mode. I do rather miss the Linux installation from my laptop (good software, awful hardware), especially since I managed to get it exactly how I like it, but I might be able to recreate at least some of it with Bochs.

But that's enough waxing about my honeymoon with the new tablet (though I doubt I could ever loathe this thing as thoroughly as I do the laptop). In other news, I asked my psychiatrist about drinking, and he said he wouldn't advise it. Not so much because of my meds, but because of the reason I'm on the meds in the first place. He's got a point. Dad still wants to buy me a drink for my birthday, though. Eh, I probably won't finish the first drink, and he'll be there if something goes wrong. I don't really have much reason to believe I'll develop an addiction, since I haven't been able to stomach more than a couple of sips of the drinks I've tried.

There's more I want to write, but I just realized I've been up for nearly a full day and my reading comprehension is shot. (What can I say? I get that way about new electronics. And even "new" electronics. And I'm still elated about not needing to use the fucking laptop. Ironic that I named it AM, yet I'm the one who feels like using its namesake's speech on it.) Better save it for later.

Coincidentally, I just picked up a Pandigital Novel 7-inch eReader at Goodwill. It was just one of those things. It just showed up. The box said "Remanufactured", but it is in like-new condition. Somebody else had bought it, and didn't like it, and returned it. It was priced at $70. I waited until it went to half price and got it for $35. Yeh, I know, a steal. Now it isn't totally great. It is the most inferior under-powered unit that Pandigital makes. Still, it has a 500MHz Arm4 processor, and 128MB of RAM, and 4 GB of internal SD card memory. It also takes a 32GB external SDHC card, which I immediately put in there. So it is what it is. It's worth $35, and I think it will serve my needs until I bite the bullet and get something better. I already rooted it, several times, with various versions of the firmware, and learned a lot about that stuff, and how to do it.

The best part of that is that I can now install all kinds of other programs ("apps") that it wasn't intended to run. Someone figured out how to get Android 2.1 to run on it (it came with 1.5). See:

And I learned that Android is really a Java shell running on top of Linux. It has a file explorer mode that lets me look around in there, and yes, it's Linux.

HINT: If someone else is trying this, I learned the hard way that it will only accept a firmware update with the same name as what is already in there. In my case it's "S64N_SLSB_PDUI_PD_20110302.dat". No other name worked. It took about 40 failed attempts to discover that. (The date is variable. I just picked one newer than what was already in there, just in case the machine was checking for dates.) So no matter what firmware you want flash into the machine, rename the file to that name, and put it on the SDHC card, and the tablet will accept it and install it, while rejecting every other name. Other people have to use other names, often something like "polaris_update.dat" or "S64N_SLST_KOBO_BB_20101104.dat". Picky little machines.

The wifi works quite well, so I can carry it around and communicate with various wifi nodes and browse the web, and check Gmail and whatnot, and even the visit Barnes and Noble bookstore. My goal is to get a shell like "bash" and FTP and SSH on it so that I can upload updates to the web site without always carrying around a heavy backpack with laptop, power supply, and lots of accessories. The little tablet only weighs 1 pound.

It's getting incredible. I remember that my first computer, a Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-8I, had a 0.66 MHz clock (1.5 microsecond cycle time), 8 KWords of 12-bit-wide core memory, and weighed over 100 pounds — several hundred pounds if you add in the disk drives and tape drives and rack cabinet. And then the big Teletype terminal was over another 100 pounds. Now a 1-pound tablet runs 750 times faster and has 10,666 times as much memory, not counting the internal 4GB SD and 32GB SDHC add-on card, which are like its disk drives. Speaking of which, the PDP-8I had two 32 Kword (12-bit words) fixed-head disk drives that weighed over 50 pounds each.

Ah, the good old days.

Oh well, have a good day now. Oh, and the story of the spiders is still coming. But right now I'm going to be chasing the goslings. I saw the first new goslings of the year yesterday.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "We've arranged a civilization in which most crucial
**     elements profoundly depend on science and technology.
**     We have also arranged things so that almost no one
**     understands science and technology.  This is a
**     prescription for disaster.  We might get away with it
**     for a while, but sooner or later this combustible
**     mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in
**     our faces."
**       ==  Carl Sagan

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#PJ ]

Date: Wed, March 27, 2013 7:45 pm       (Answered 24 April 2013)
From: "Psychology Today"
Subject: Psychology Today :: new comment for your post.

Hi Orange,

P J Watts has commented on: "Does 12-step Treatment Work by Inducing PTSD?"

Subject: Another curious fact is that

Another curious fact is that the more serious addictions get the least reverence. Most people agree smoking is the hardest thing to give up, but many people scoff at the idea of a 12-step group for smoking. so-called"abstinence-based" groups, both 12-step and not, will insist one ought never drink to be thought "clean and siober" even if it never presented any trouble, but tobacco, caffeine, chocolate and sugar (all highly addictive) may not only be consumed but actually provided at meetings. People often get round the first by laughing at me about the last two ignoring the fact that morbid obesity and diabetes are major killers, just like smoking. While not all AA/NAs may laugh at Overeaters Anonymous (though many do) since one always has to eat OA is perhaps the one 12-step group where life attendance makes sense, but it is the one that people will drop after the weight loss while still attending AA/NA for life.

You can view the comment at the following url

Psychology Today Staff

Those are good points. It's funny how A.A. has set itself up as the most spiritual and prestigious of the 12-Step groups, with Al-Anon coming in second, and then the others, like Over-Eaters Anonymous and Nicotine Anonymous and Caffeine Anonymous, are way down the totem pole and are the subject of jokes, and like Rodney Dangerfield says, "They don't get no respect." As if drinking too much alcohol makes you much more spiritual than eating too many chocolate cakes.

Ego, ego, ego. Ah, the ego games that people play while they are "reducing their egos".

Oh well, have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "All of A.A.'s Twelve Steps ask us to go contrary to our
**     natural desires ... they all deflate our egos."
**       ==  Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, Bill Wilson and Tom Powers, p.55

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Emily_P ]

Date: Sat, April 6, 2013 4:26 pm       (Answered 24 April 2013)
From: "Emily P."
Subject: Re: forum approval


I dunno if u remember, but I sent you an email about being in an ex-cult rehab center b/c of my experience in the Atlantic group. The chairman of the group this year used to be like a mom to me. Now she wants nothing to do with me and just emailed my therapist trying to make me sound crazy and claimed I was harassing her. It was way out of line and my therapist is writing her back... not exactly in the way she will be expecting! Lol I am sending a complaint about the group. I am gonna start with the GSO and work up to a more legal chain. Have you heard of the Lifton criteria? The UN uses it to assess whether a government is engaging in dangerous behavior. Very popular with cult experts. I have a long form of it that makes it easier to determine if someone is experiencing any criteria. I can send it if you like. The Atlantic Group fits every criteria.

Hello Emily,

I'm very much interested in the work of Dr. Robert Jay Lifton. I have a lot of admiration for him and his work. I have a short list of his 8 Criteria for brainwashing here:

And I have two of his books listed in the bibliography, here:

But I don't know if I have the "long form" of the criteria. I'd love to get it.

Have a good day now, and welcome.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "Those who manipulate the organized habits and
**     opinions of the masses constitute an invisible
**     government which is the true ruling power of the
**     country.... It remains a fact that in almost every act
**     of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics
**     or business, in our social conduct or our ethical
**     thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small
**     number of persons.... It is they who pull the wires
**     which control the public mind, who harness old social
**     forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the
**     world.... As civilization has become more complex, and
**     as the need for invisible government has been
**     increasingly demonstrated, the technical means have
**     been invented and developed by which opinion may be
**     regimented."
**       —  Edward Bernays in his book "Propaganda" (1928).
**           Bernays was Sigmund Freud's nephew and chief advisor
**           to William Paley, who started CBS in 1928

July 1, 2012, Sunday: The Fernhill Wetlands

Bald Eagle
Bald Eagle
This is one of the parents of the Bald Eagle chick. I'm guessing that this is the father, and the next picture is the mother. It's extremely subjective, but this one just looks more masculine, and more like a father, while the next one looks more feminine. At least, to my eyes.

Notice how the father (above) has more of an outrageous mane of hair (so to speak), while the mother (below) has more subdued plumage. That is a characteristic that is common to many bird species, and even to lions. The male has all of the impressive plumage, and the female looks rather drab and plain in comparison.

Bald Eagle
Bald Eagle
This is the other parent of the Bald Eagle chick.

Bald Eagle
Bald Eagle, the father again, I think.

Bald Eagle
Both Bald Eagles, together. It looks the the father is the upper one.

[The story of the goslings continues here.]

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Marcus_M ]

Date: Sun, April 21, 2013 4:38 am       (Answered 25 April 2013)
From: "Marcus M."
Subject: [Orange Papers] Whenever I hear someone say that they do not want...

Marcus M. posted in Orange Papers

Whenever I hear someone say that they do not want to get rid of 12 step groups or they claim 12 step groups are helpful for millions, I cringe a bit. I do not care if 12 step groups continue to exist or not. I do care that the truth be revealed so that people can make informed decisions. I do believe that only an evangelical, narcissistic, bombastic and otherwise unsuccessful person is genuinely helped by the 12 steps. They are helped by having a place to evangelize, blow their horn with their claims of 'time,' and be able to play the big shot to vulnerable people they refer to as 'newcomers.' This reference to these newcomers is done with pity and disrespect, and the newcomer is broken down with mantras that break their ability to think for themselves: 'Your best thinking got you here,' is one of many demeaning references newcomers must adopt as truths. For that group of misfits who would otherwise have nothing to brag about in their lives, the 12 steps are perfect.

Reply to this email to comment on this post.


Orange: Yes, about the bombastic fool being helped by the 12 Steps — Bill Wilson was a narcissistic personality with delusions of grandeur. When he said that all alcoholics needed to have their egos reduced, he was really talking about himself. But most alcoholics have just the opposite problem — feelings of inferiority, feeling like they are not worth much. The 12 Steps are just the opposite of what they need for therapy.

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "Upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly."
**         == Big Book, Fwd to the 2nd Edition
**            [We don't have the only solution]
**     "For most cases, there is virtually no other solution."
**         == Big Book, page 43
**            [There is no other solution]
**     "...every A.A. group can manage its affairs exactly as it pleases..."
**         12&12, page 146
**            [Do what you want]
**     "...the group, exactly like the individual, must eventually conform..."
**         12&12, page 146
**            [Do what you're told]
**                  (Thank you, "Iamnotastatistic", for those.)

[ Link here = https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html#Faith ]

Date: Wed, April 10, 2013 3:44 pm       (Answered 12 April 2013)
Subject: registration
From: "Faith"

Hi Orange,

Sorry I'm just getting back to you. I try to register on the forum last Friday afternoon, then got busy and am just getting back to it! I believe the user name I was trying to use was "Faith". I am definitely legitimate and have been reading the Orange Papers for a while. I also am a member at the "Expose AA" site. I won't go into the long story about leaving AA, but I've been out for almost three years now and I still get riled up about the almost 20 years in and out. It's a common story- I always thought something wasn't quite right, blah, blah, and finally was triggered after a particular meeting. I began reading AA criticism, got "deprogrammed" and am happy to now live a normal life. Interestingly, I've haven't even had one AA "friend" contact me to find out where I've gone!

Keep up the good work!



Hi Faith,

You are in. Welcome.

And have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "The test, surely, of a creed is not the ability of those who accept it
**     to announce their faith; its test is its ability to change their behavior
**     in the ordinary round of daily life. Judged by that test, I know no
**     religion that has a moral claim upon the allegiance of men."
**       ==  Harold J. Laski, in I Believe (1939), ed. Clifton Fadiman

More Letters

Previous Letters

Search the Orange Papers

Click Fruit for Menu

Last updated 21 April 2015.
The most recent version of this file can be found at https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters350.html