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I have CCd Ken on this but it is written to Orange. So Blamedenial has yet another rebirth but with a twist of lemon. Eric F has agreed to run the site, answer the emails, and generally make the posts that feed the appetite of the visitors that still dare to peruse the site many love to hate, and hate to love. After the events that unfolded towards the end of last year I felt that I was no longer in a position to run such a venture, and have for sometime been looking for an exit strategy. I miss making the boring monologues that were my videos; I miss the creativity, I miss the distraction, I miss all the crashes, but above all I miss the controversy. The latter I add, because I miss it for all the wrong reasons. It bates one like euphoric recall might when we look back on our substance of choice with favour. Controversy online has all the intensity to create a rush, but it also lacks the intimacy that might force one to feel guilty for enjoying the whole fiasco. Call it an English trait, but I recall that someone far wiser than myself wrote that an Englishman is only happy when he has persuaded the world he is in discomfort. We have what the Romans would have called an amphitheatre. Battles are fought and won, reputations gained and lost, and groups formed as well as disbanded. For a time it is entertaining, or even, edutaining. I add the latter because it is possible to learn something from all this, and not just about the individual, but about all the valid points of contention with regards to AA. This is for the most part a debate conducted online and I urge people to never forget that loyalty, friendship and the like are most fickle on here, as they are elsewhere. There was a time when I dreamed of making this whole spectacle my life; getting a law degree, qualifying and fighting to prove to the establishment that AA is wrong — all that changed sometime ago when I learned that in order to do this I would have to deny my own thoughts, my own feelings, and silence myself yet again, as I had done in the rooms. AA has little respect for the individual, but they are not alone in that outlook. Trust, decency, an acceptance of error in light of absolute personal turmoil, are lost on many in this debate. The individual, as an entity becomes fair fodder in this 'game', regardless of the points they make, whether they are right or not. Despite my cowardly retreat from the fray for now, I would encourage more people to speak their views — if you are human, and thus err from time to time, you will be shot down, exposed, humiliated, but if you can stick around, battle on so to speak, you might meet a handful of people willing to learn from you as well as teach you. As always balance is the key. And should anyone else like myself ever arrive with all my faults, please let AA do the deed of revealing those faults — they are in fact irrelevant to this whole debate, and by condoning the actions of those who have done this all we do is persuade others not to take the risk of speaking their thoughts. Any alcoholic or addict is going to have skeletons in the closet; in fact anyone who has lived is. I think we might call it airing our dirty laundry in public. The result in my case is that I still have a passion to question AA but I do not wish to offer any support to the antics employed by either extreme. And with that I ask that you give Eric a chance to take over from the abysmal job I was doing at Blamedenial and see where he can take it. One thing on Eric's side is that he employs a sense of humour and behind that guise is hidden a humanity that is very much needed, and welcomed by myself, in this whole furore. I shall stick around for the time being on the side lines helping Eric with the maintenance of the site, but he is free to express anything he chooses. I think he is very brave to take on the responsibility of a website that has meant so well but failed to achieve anything of value. In his favour however are the number of visitors to the site, and the opportunity to turn that around. I would hope that the likes of Agent Orange, Ken Ragge, Stanton Peele et al. offer him the support he deserves for having the courage to present something to this intense debate. And to end a final thought in a very Jerry Springer way — whether the individual who questions lives the perfect existence in terms of our value system means so little — what is of paramount importance is whether their points are valid, and should they prove to be so, then they deserve to be answered. Finding people who have left AA, or are on the fringes, who are perfect and without fault is unlikely to happen. I might even add that those who swear by AA do not exist either. If Blamedenial has failed thus far, so be it, but for all the effort I have made let that be my final lesson to all those who want to expose AA for what it is — stick to the points, stick to the facts, stick to the reality otherwise we have no chance of making any difference whatsoever. I leave this with more regrets than I did when I left AA — let that be food for thought, but that said, I am happy to have been freed from AA. The difference boils down to barriers to exit, and back chat, and character assignations. Had I just left AA and read the Orange Papers, and More Revealed, and shut up, then I suspect I would have been in a better position. Putting my face on line was the biggest mistake I have made since leaving the rooms. J a m e s G www.blamedenial.co.uk And on a personal note I hope you are settling in to your new home. As always, thank you for your effort and all that you have taught me. It looks like I am going to do pretty well in my law exams and that the offers of work will result. I would have liked to have been a part of this but when my relapse was exposed last year, I felt I was unable to despite the fact that I dealt with it without AA. Go figure... any wonder why it feels like we are making so little difference? Being younger than most does not help my credibility, but in truth it should not mean anything. I have been asked to write a biography for someone and for the time being that is what I shall focus on. As much as I respect your mode of academic writing, and the way you adhere to the Harvard method of citation, I am also keen to learn from those who simply have a view. This begs the question; what does one have to do to have a voice in all this? There in lies the answer to why 'policy' will never be changed. As Emerson said, "*S*ociety everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs." I noticed that you have quoted Emerson on a few occasions. Despite his Christian outlook, I respect his view of the individual, having read all his essays. See, one can support an individual despite his contrary views — that is something I am unable to do with AA. I trust you are well. J a m e s G
Hello again, James,
I am well, and I hope you are well too. I seem to
remember that you did well on your law exams the last time. Good.
Here's to hoping that it goes well again.
I will miss your videos, but life goes on. I'm glad someone will maintain your web site.
Thanks for all you have done.
I wouldn't call your "retreat from the fray" cowardly. People need to get on with their
lives. You need to do different things at different times.
Remember the Byrds' song "Turn Turn Turn" (the lyrics of which
were actually extracted from Ecclesiastes):
"To everything there is a season..."
Another great song was the Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation" album,
"Life is change. How it differs from the rocks."
(And yes, I do seem to love to quote things, don't I? Emerson is in good company.)
And you know, I think we are making a difference. There is just a lot of momentum to overcome.
The big system (the world) changes VERY slowly. A.A. has had a 70-year head start in promoting its
strange brand of quackery, and a lot of well-meaning but misinformed people honestly
think that A.A. is a helpful organization and a good thing. But they are learning otherwise.
Have you been following
the flap over the "Midtown Group"
of Washington DC, USA?
There, Newsweek magazine, which is one of the biggest magazines
in the USA, published a devastating
article about 'A.A. the cult that sexually exploits little girls', and
the local TV station in
Washington DC has been hammering away on the issue.
Now that is big. A.A.'s facade is cracking.
Major news outlets dare to criticize and expose A.A. misconduct and sexual exploitation
of female members, which is something that I haven't ever seen before in my lifetime.
So there is hope. Things are changing.
Have a good day, and have a good life.
== Orange
Hi Andrew,
I don't mind printing that story with the picture, if it is
real rather than a hoax.
But please, I need more information. Can you get back to
the original source and get the details? The guy didn't
even give the full name of the girl. His niece, Madeleine,...
What is her last name? Who are her parents?
Can we get some contact info? Whom to tell if we see
a girl who looks like that?
What police department is handling the case?
When was she kidnapped, stolen, or disappeared? Where?
And so on.
Thanks.
== Orange
Orange, Madeleine McCann is a little English girl who was abducted while on holiday in Portugal with her parents (her whereabouts are still unknown) and the story has been making waves across Europe. I was in Switzerland on Monday for a job interview and the story was in all the media there. Obviously it hasn't yet made it across the pond. Here's a tiny link to the BBC's survey of the news about her: Your site goes from strength to strength. Keep up the good work! Andrew
Andrew,
Oh, good. Lots of background information. You are right, the
story did not make it over here. I never heard a word of this
before. But I'll go ahead and put it up on the chance that some
European reader might see it.
Such a pretty little girl. I can see why someone would want to steal her.
I hope she gets home okay.
Have a good day.
== Orange
And yet another. That DC station isn't going to let go anytime soon, I'm thinking. http://www.nbc4.com/news/13340697/detail.html watch the video: http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=105282 Mike
Thanks for the tip, Mike.
I'm glad to see a news organization actually doing their job, just for a change.
In that article, when it came time for the token positive remarks about
Alcoholics Anonymous, I couldn't help but notice the propaganda techniques
used in defense of the Midtown Group:
That is classic
escape via relativism
— as if it's all just a matter of one person's opinion versus another's.
And of course the speaker was just
assuming facts not in evidence
— "it is working".
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Also see:
This is the URL of the original article:
Oh well, at least they published the orginal article. I commend them for that.
Still, you might want to write a letter to the editor, just for the fun
of it, complaining about them stopping the dialogue.
And this is strange: at the bottom of that web page, it says
"© 2007 MSNBC.com" and "© 2007 Microsoft".
Hi Orange:
This one, however, seems to be real: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/missing/mccann.asp Snopes should do a section on A.A.
Regards,
Hi again, Dennis,
Thanks for the tip. That link is especially good because it gives the phone numbers to call:
Yes, I had to ask if the Madeleine story was a hoax, because I seem to recall that a lot of those
kinds of alerts were in fact hoaxes. Which is really a sick heartless kind of hoax.
It takes some real weirdos to think that kind of stuff is funny.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Hello Orange!, First of all: please do not publish my e-mail-address as I have been on the receiving end many a time in my efforts to inform my fellow Human-beings about various issues (from the truth behind mass-unemployment to the origins of oppression by movements like AA). As a male, husband and father in his forties I write in a special ink: the one made of a mixture of tears and gall. Just be naive, trusting and vulnerable for a while and the ink comes naturally. Would it be just OK if I thanked you for your pleasant reply to JamesG AND your referring to an quoting from The BYRDS — "Turn turn turn"? Thanks again. And have a GREAT DAY — EVERYDAY. Peter B.
Hi Peter,
Yes, it's okay if you just complement me.
== Orange
You are nothing but a lies are uglier then your person you foolish CUNT
Date: Sun, May 27, 2007 7:09 pm
Date: Sun, May 27, 2007 8:34 pm
Hi Orange, I just wanted to send you a quick note thanking you for the links regarding the Midtown Group scandal. I haven't been feeling very well lately, so I haven't been able to do as much on the Recovering from Recovery blog or BlameDenial as I would like to, just a few post posts late at night when I can't sleep. I had an AAer remark sarcastically to me, " I bet you're loving this stuff about Midtown, more ammunition to bash AA with." What a ludicrous statement. First off, nothing surrounding the Midtown scandal makes me happy; it is a sad tragedy that young people are being abused and taken advantage of in that and other AA groups around the country. Second, I haven't really been "bashing" AA lately, just pointing out how they are bashing themselves and demonstrating the hollowness of their steps and traditions.
As Jimmy and I have talked over the past few weeks, I've decided to take a
slightly different tack in my writing, more of an appeal to AA members to
look at their fellowship and honestly see what is wrong with it. I think
this is paying of, at least a little. I sent this blog post I'm going to start a long essay for BlameDenial tonight to get the new direction going over there. I can't tell you how much Jimmy has helped me recently with his simple compassion and understanding. We've discussed meeting up here in Houston sometime this year and making some videos, and I hope we can do that soon. Slowly but surely, we're having an effect on people in AA and the public at large. Hopefully, someday soon, all the cult religion nonsense can be set aside and some real progress finally be made in helping alcoholics and drug addicts. Take care, and my best wishes to you,
E r i c F
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the letter, and good luck on your future work.
And thanks for all that you have already done.
I have also tried to soften my stance, to not sound so shrill and strident,
but I seem to keep coming back to the conclusion that A.A. still
kills more alcoholics than it saves, which is sort of a harsh message. :-)
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Hi Orange: I've been reading one of your papers devoted to Paul Diener's responses on the Addict-L website throughout the year 2002. Among all the interesting information and arguments that he provided, this one particularly caught my eye and mind. It's from a posting dating 12-7-2002. The relevant line is bolded, italicized, and underlined. The surrounding quoted info adds the correct context in which the emphasized line is written.
"I have never said ALL those who monitor Addict-L are corrupt. (I would not waste time posting here if I thought this to be true.) Especially, NON- professionals monitor this site. I spend a bit of time each week providing a critical voice, so that the kind of bull you guys serve up does not go without refutation. Research shows that even one voice of dissent can greatly decrease the effectiveness of propaganda. Do you know of which study or studies to which Diener was referring? The emphasized line provides, I think, some hope and motivation to continue advocacy for any cause that is just yet contrary to dominant cultural ideologies; in this case the acceptance of 12-Steppism as the best solution to addiction. It would be great to see those studies. Given that Diener may be gone (as you opined elsewhere), this may be difficult to ascertain. I've been coming to your website for years. Thanks so much for your commitment. Ron R.
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the complements. Alas, I don't know what Paul was
referring to. All I can say is that he was probably right.
Every time I have checked out his references, I have found that
he was right. He had a PhD that was apparently well-earned —
he had a breath-taking sweeping view of history and the world,
which is why I like to read him. And I have gotten a lot of
leads and hints and references from him.
And unfortunately, I don't think we can ask him. To the best of
my knowledge, he died. I heard a rumor that he was in poor health,
and then he just stopped posting and disappeared, and his
internet account was cancelled. And then I got letters from
his admirers in Europe who asked me what happened to him...
So I guess all we can do is try to track down those references
ourselves.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Orange, I saw where a Ron R. was asking about the following:
Research shows that even one voice of dissent can greatly decrease the effectiveness of propaganda.
More than likely it was from: Even if it wasn't from there, Asch made the same point and probably first. Ken Ragge
Hi Ken,
Thanks for the reference, and have a good day.
== Orange
Orange, How you doin? I'm still reading your site when I have time. This has nothing to do with AA but that line in sgt. pepper is 20 years ago today. And that byrds song was written by Pete Seeger. Best Wishes, Bloozman
Hiya again, Bloozman,
You are absolutely right. I had that line about "It was 40 years ago today" going through my head
so much from all of the newscasters and commentators who were echoing it that my mind slipped
a cog. Yeh, the Beatles originally sang "20 years ago today".
And what is both funny and frightening
is that, at that time, that seemed like an eternity. Many of us were just 20 years old ourselves,
and 20 years into the future sounded as distant as "Will you still need me, Will you still feed me,
when I'm 64?"
Well, our new sixties are here, this year, and no, Paul, the little
gold-digger won't feed you when you're 64.
I didn't know that Pete Seeger wrote "Turn, Turn, Turn".
I'm impressed. It's a very different thing from the usual folk/protest material.
It's amazing how it all just goes on and on and there's so much.
Here it is 2007 and I'm still learning stuff about the sixties (and earlier)...
Have a good day.
== Orange
WOW! I just chanced upon your 1-100 article this morning while surfing the net and I don't even remember how. In the past, I've helped coordinate a counter-cult group here in S. Florida and YOU ARE RIGHT ON! What a great COMPREHENSIVE article, with facts and documentation to back it up! Who are you? :-)
Carol L.
Hi Carol,
Thanks for the compliments, and I'm glad to hear that you like
The Cult Test.
Who am I? That's difficult to answer in just a few sentences, so I'll refer you to
the places where I answered that before:
Look here for the list.
And have a good day.
== Orange
Dear Orange:
I think that a majority of those with substance abuse problems do it on
their own without a group. People who quit on their own have no reason to tell anyone how it was done. An interesting sociological study would be to determine the charactreristics of those who remain in AA. It won't be done, I expect. Midtown group does not surprise me. I am a bit surprised that it became public. You are doing well on this matter. A flawed idea that AA is built upon: The idea that a deeply flawed person will cure another deeply flawed person. A dynamic fraught with peril. One day, competent professionals will learn that AA is a deeply flawed organization; which only a small number of people find useful. One day, the court system will realize that mandating AA is merely a diversion from incarceration. Perhaps, many in that system are aware of that. The cynical nature of that arrangement is manifest.
Regards,
Thanks for the input. I couldn't agree more. I especially like the line about,
"The idea that a deeply flawed person will cure another deeply
flawed person. A dynamic fraught with peril."
Yes, really. Like when did any medical research ever establish that insane people
were the best counselors for other insane people? ...That the lunatics really should
run the insane asylum?
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
I have been browsing your web-site of late and found it in all honesty rather nauseating. As an example, you profess that AA kills people, well, not going to AA ALSO kills people, I haven't seen you promote that point as rigorously as you might. As for your point regarding the nil success rate of AA and asking one e-mailer to provide proof, well, heres proof enough. I have been a regular AA attendee for over 11 years and am now 10 years + sober. Thats success for a drunk/alcoholic of my nature. When I came to AA I couldnt stop drinking, and I sure as hell couldnt stop your way (by doing it alone). AA didnt stop me drinking, I stopped because I was afraid of living and afraid of dying, becait was killing me and I was fortunate enoguh to at least be in an organisation where others had also been in the same place in their lives. Now Ive stopped, and have not taken a drink for over 10 years, so why can't I do it your way? Because Im an alcoholic and I need to be a part of something bigger than me that pursues the same objective as me, which is why its called a fellowship. Its staying stopped thats the trick. Oh and by the way, AA doesnt suggest/instruct/dictate or tell that their way is the only way, we do not have the monopoly on recovery, although you seem to take some kind of satisfaction from suggesting that we do. You may choose to publish this or may choose not to, it doesnt matter; however if you do choose to though, please dont try to manipulate my words or what you THINK they mean, theres no hidden meaning, just let others read them and allow them the dignity to make their own minds up. Actually, I wish you well. In the mean time, have a good day and a good life. Matt
Hello Matt,
You claimed that
"not going to AA ALSO kills people".
No it doesn't. You are trying to imply that A.A. makes people quit drinking and saves lives.
There is no evidence for that. The evidence is just the opposite: that A.A. makes things worse
for a lot of people.
We have been over this for so many times that I will just give you the list of
medical studies where A.A. harmed alcoholics,
In fact, there has never been a single valid medical study that showed that attending A.A. meetings helped
alcoholics to get better. No one. Not ever.
And you yourself just wrote that you didn't quit drinking because of Alcoholics Anonymous.
You quit drinking because you were going to die if you didn't. So did I, for the same reason,
and without Alcoholics Anonymous.
Congratulations on your 10 years of sobriety. That does not in any way show that A.A. helped you.
It shows that you decided to quit drinking in order to save your life, and then you did it.
The fact that you didn't do it earlier is irrelevant.
You didn't quit until you really wanted to quit, until things got so bad that you just had to quit.
And your statement that you couldn't quit before is also irrelevant.
It's like saying that you when you were a child, you could never ride a bicycle
— you fell down every time you tried — until the Magic Day when you succeeded in staying up on
the bicycle. And what was the cause of that Magic Day? Some organization that says that it has a
magical spiritual cure for bicycleism?
Oh, and Bill Wilson did say that "A.A. is the only way". Sure, he started off with
some remarks that sounded open-minded,
to get people to join his cult,
but then he switched to claiming that A.A. was the only way:
It's just one more
bait-and-switch trick.
Bill had so many of them.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Last updated 22 May 2013. |
