Letters, We Get Mail, CLXXVII

Date: Thu, May 27, 2010 10:14 am     (answered 28 June 2010)
From: "Scott K."
Subject: info

I read through your site often and use it for a reference regularly. It is outstanding work.

Thought you may find the article on the other end of this link interesting ( you're even quoted in one of the comments )


It speaks to how those in charge of the upcoming revision to DSM IV are seeking to again redefine addiction to benefit the treatment industry.

Take Care,

Scott G. K.

" I'd put my money on solar energy,....I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
— Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the letter and the link. That is very revealing. The comments are good too.

I agree with Dr. Allen Frances, who wrote that opinion piece. It is ridiculous to lump recreational intoxication in with addiction. A few wild Saturday nights do not make someone an addict.

And erasing the distinction between Substance Abuse and Substance Addiction is a big mistake. They are not the same thing at all. Someone can be way over-using something, and still not be addicted.

That was the case with me, the last time around. I was "Abusing", but not "Addicted" to alcohol. I was able to just quit cold turkey without going into withdrawal or DTs. But I was still drinking so much that the doctor told me I was going to die, and he was right.

I would suggest that concerned people write letters (real snail-mail) to the APA, expressing their opinions and concerns. And more comments to that article wouldn't hurt, either.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     Out, you imposters; quack-salving, cheating mountebanks;
**     your skill is to make sound men sick, and sick men to kill.
**       ==  Philip Massinger (1583—1640), English dramatist, playwright, poet

[The previous letters from Fred S. are here.]

From: "Fred S"
Subject: Thanks
Date: Wed, June 23, 2010 11:13 pm

Dear Orange,

Thank you for taking time to reply. I really appreciate it, given the volume of response your work seems to generate.

Finding your website has been the start of an incredible journey for me.

Ten years ago, I held two books in my hand, one the AABB and the other "AA, Cult or Cure?" and asked myself which book was more likely to help me remain sober. After a decade spent in the root program and several other A's, I recently began to notice that shit still flows downhill, even in an "upside down pyramid!"

I am currently attending a freethinking meeting and studying a lot about addiction and recovery. Empowerment — what a concept!

Thanks for the inspiration.


Hello again, Fred,

Thanks for the compliments. By a funny coincidence, or maybe non-coincidence, Charles Bufe's book, "AA: Cult or Cure" also had a big influence on me, and was a real eye-opener for me too.

So both of us have woken up and smelled the coffee because of that book.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     The ideas I stand for are not mine. I borrowed them from Socrates.
**     I swiped them from Chesterfield. I stole them from Jesus.
**     And I put them in a book.
**     If you don't like their rules, whose would you use?
**         == Dale Carnegie

From: "W. David P."
Subject: Brontosaurus
Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 2:02 am

I noticed in one of your recent letter answers, you talked about the brontosaurus. You might be interested to read this.


No need to quote me on your web site. I just wanted to draw to your attention the brontosaurus is not what you think it is.

Kind Regards,
W. David P.

Hi again, David,

Thanks for the tip. No such dinosaur as the brontosaurus? It was assembled from pieces of other dinosaurs? Oh no, there goes another childhood education.

I feel like I'm getting a lot of these revelations lately: Hitler wasn't really a vegetarian, and there was no such dinosaur as the brontosaurus? My world is crumbling.

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     A sudden, bold, and unexpected question doth many
**     times surprise a man and lay him open.
**        ==  Francis Bacon, Of Cunning, Essays, 1625.

Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 3:16 am     (answered 2 July 2010)
From: Cindy
Subject: One day at a time

One Day At A Time, Lyrics by Joe Walsh, dedicated to Bill W. (that's a joke).

Well you know,
I was always the first to arrive at the party, ooh!
And the last to leave the scene of the crime
Well it started with a couple of beers,
And it went i dont know how many years,
Like a runaway train headed for the end of the line.

Well I finally got around to admit that I might have a problem.
But I thought it was just too damn big of a mountain to climb.
Well I got down on my knees and said 'Hey!' (la la la)
'I just cant go on livin' this way!' (la la la)

Guess I have to learn to live my life one day at a time.
Oh ya! One day at a time!
Oh ya! One day at a time!

Oh ya! One day at a time!
Oh ya! One day at a time!

Well I finally got around to admit that I was a problem.
When I used to put the blame on everybody's shoulders but mine.
All the friends I used to run with are gone, (la la la)
Lord, I hadn't planned on livin this long. (la la la)

I have to learn to live my life one day at a time!

It was something it was too blind to see,
I got help from something greater than me.
And I have to learn to live my life one day at a time!

Hi again, Cindy,

Thanks for the song. That is interesting. But I wonder about that. Living one day at a time is what got me into trouble in the first place.
"I'll live one day at a time. I'll just live for today and not worry about tomorrow. Let's really do it up right tonight."
So tomorrow, I was hung-over and sick.

Now I'm living three years at a time, and it works a whole lot better.

It sounds like Joe Walsh has gone and drank the koolaid, and now he is just repeating cult slogans. 'Tis a pity.

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 5:17 pm     (answered 2 July 2010)
From: Cindy
Subject: Nothing but the best

Hey Orange I don't have paypal, but I will get it within the next couple of weeks and make a donation. I know you should be paid allot for all that you do. Even if people still go to A.A. you are at least showing them the other side. I read somewhere you were looking for an apartment. Great Luck with that. I'm sure you will get what is the highest and best for you. Thank you so much for being you. I don't go to facebook because they are too snoopy. Hope life is good to you. Oh I did get my kids back, not with any of their help. They terrorized me for a couple of months then said, they belonged home with Mom, they were on me because their dad had broken into a drug store and died from an OD. But one of my sons works as an English teacher in Osaka, Japan, the other, he's a cook, and my 16 year old is in school. The young one doesn't even know I had a problem Thankfully. May nothing but the best shine your way. Thanks again.
Cindy R

Hi again, Cindy,

I'm glad to hear that things are looking up for you. And thanks for the good wishes.

So you have a good day too.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     There is frequently more to be learned from the unexpected
**     questions of a child than the discourses of men, who talk in
**     a road, according to the notions they have borrowed and the
**     prejudices of their education.
**       ==  John Locke, Some Thoughts Concerning Education, 1693, p. 120.

[Previous letter from Gary here.]

Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 9:52 am     (answered 2 July 2010)
From: "Gary Johnson"
Subject: Re: Carrying the Message

Thanks for your reply. I noticed that some steppers used the fact that you were without a home for a while to discredit you. It is outrageous, but not surprising that they stoop so low. It just shows what contempt they must have for the homeless in general. The sad fact is that millions of Americans are a couple of pay checks away from being homeless. I guess the ersatz spirituality of AA does not teach compassion.

Hi again Gary,

Alas, the A.A. "spiritualty" does not seem to include much compassion. That is unfortunate.

And that is a very old attitude. The Oxford Group had the policy: never dispense any charity to anybody, ever. While the Oxford Groupers lived in first-class splendor and luxury in the Waldorf-Astoria, they wouldn't give a penny to the poor. Bill Wilson echoed that same attitude of non-compassion and non-help in the Big Book.

The minute we put our work on a service plane, the alcoholic commences to rely upon our assistance rather than upon God.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 7, Working With Others, page 98.

So don't give those alcoholics any material help; make them rely upon God.

But taking delight in the suffering of other people takes it to another whole level. In recent letters, we were just talking about the ingrained Schadenfreude of A.A., here, here, and here.

BTW while it may be productive to present alternatives to AA in on line forums, I have found that face to face discussions can be quite rewarding. A number of people I know struggle with AA and are open to hearing how others have become sober without the 12 steps. Often just hearing the simple message that they should not submit to the nonsense about being powerless will validate what they already know deep down. If you get to people before they start labeling any idea contrary to AA as "stinking thinking" then you can help turn them from AA and toward sobriety. One friend was influenced by myself and others simply by hearing the words "abstinence is sobriety", that success in quiting drinking is an end in itself and you can then get on with your life. Those who are threatened by critics of AA know they are on thin ice. It does not take much validation to convince people that self empowerment — self-will if you please — is their best hope.


Yes, that sounds good, very good. You clearly describe those moments early in the conversion process when people are wavering, not sure if they want to buy into what they are hearing, and it only takes a small injection of common sense to pop the bubble of nonsense.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     There is only one success — to be able to spend your life your own way.
**        ==  Christopher Morley

Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 9:54 am     (answered 3 July 2010)
From: "nancy w."
Subject: (your shit

you are full of shit

Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 3:34 pm     (answered 3 July 2010)
From: "Dave C."
Subject: Curious about your thoughts

Just came across your site when looking into some questions about AA. What is your perspective on the best course of treatment for addicts? I'm sure that's a big question without a simple answer but if you could sum it up in a few sentences, what would that paragraph look like? Thanks,


Hello Dave,

My immediate reaction was that there are two answers to that question.

  1. First off, Professors Reid K. Hester and William R. Miller (UNM, Albuquerque — Center for Alcohol, Substance Abuse and Addictions, Dept. of Psychology, University of New Mexico), rated treatment modalities by success rate. Here are the results:

    The most successful treatment is "Brief Intervention".

    Notice how "Twelve-step facilitation" is so far down the list that you have to look for it. It's number 37 out of 48. Also notice how 12-Step treatment has a negative success rating — the "Cumulative Evidence Score" is a minus 82, while the best treatments are rated positive 390 and 189.

    "Brief Intervention" consists of a real doctor talking to the patient for usually less than one hour, questioning him about all of the ugly details of his drinking and telling him that he will die if he doesn't quit drinking. One time. That's it. No long counseling sessions, no great guidance, no on-going advice, no shoulder to cry on. And no 28-day treatment program. Just one "Dutch Uncle" session and it's over. And that's the most effective thing going.

    That kind of puts the whole expensive "drug-and-alcohol treatment industry" to shame, doesn't it?

    Brief Intervention is what I got. Less than an hour of the doctor asking pointed questions about all of the bad aspects of my drinking, and summing it all up by saying, "Quit drinking or die. Choose one." And it seems to have worked. I have 9 1/2 years sober now. Also 9 1/2 years off of cigarettes and any other drugs too.

    But please understand that they just shove all of the work back on you. You have to choose to quit drinking and live, and then you have to do it. They never said that their "Brief Intervention treatment" would make you quit drinking.

    (Incidentally, another piece of research from that same Prof. Miller and UNM Center found that "spiritual" treatment for alcoholism was completely ineffective. Look here.)

  2. Then there is the question of how long you want the "treatment" to go on. Obviously, by definition, Brief Intervention is over in less than an hour. But suppose you did want a "support group", with meetings that continue for months or years? Well, there you have a number of choices, all free of cost. Here is the list of the usual suspects:

    It would not be fair for me to rate those groups and say whether you might do better in SMART or SOS or Lifering, because the only one of them that I ever went to was SMART. (The others didn't have any meetings in my city at the time.) I hear good things about all of them. If you want a group, I'd check them out and see what meetings are available in your city.

  3. And then something that is not on any of those lists is Rational Recovery, which is no longer a meeting group — it is a book and a mental technique. Trimpey is now selling "Addictive Voice Recognition Technique" (AVRT). You can read the bibliography — both of Jack Trimpey's books — here.

    I coincidentally also developed a technique very similar to AVRT from watching my own mind as I quit and backslid, especially with smoking, for many years. I called it "The Lizard Brain Addiction Monster", and it is described here. The essence of that technique is simply recognizing that the stupid little voice that yammers about how you should just have a cigarette and a beer now, you deserve it, and it will be okay, is not my own voice and those are not my own thoughts. And I shouldn't believe that voice for a minute because disaster always results when I do.

  4. And then I feel like I have to mention one more thing: Slogans. All too often, slogans are simple-minded bad things that stop thought. Slogans usually just reduce complex issues to simple (and wrong) answers. But slogans don't have to be all bad. I have a few favorites that I use:

    • Just don't take that first drink, not ever, no matter what.

      That is the answer to all questions about drinking, or "just having one".

    • Just don't smoke that first cigarette, not ever, no matter what.

      Likewise, this is obvious.

    • Play the tape to the end.

      Imagine the situation as a movie on videotape. Don't just think about the next hour or two, and how much fun a little drinking may be. Play the tape all the way to the end, and see the full-blown relapse and readdiction and sickness and shame and poverty, and how disappointed you will feel with yourself, and how hard it will be to quit again...

      That works for me.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     As I see it, every day you do one of two things:
**     build health or produce disease in yourself.
**          ==   Adelle Davis

May 18, 2009, Monday: Day 18, continued:

Canada Goose goslings
Canada Goose goslings
I think this is two of the Family of 9, resting. Parts of two other goslings are just barely visible.

[The story of Carmen continues here.]

Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 7:14 pm     (answered 3 July 2010)
From: "steve c."
Subject: Why is a. orange such a chicken-shit? How can he betray those who believe what he says is true. I could be cured but you're no one.

Who is a. orange and why is he so cowardly as to not reveal his real identity?

I agree with almost everything he says but without a source his writing is is pure imagination.

Abraham Lincoln said, "To remain silent when one should protest makes cowards of men." Is a. organge a coward or a man. I need to know. I'm trying to break the cycle of acohol and prescription addiction. It means everything to me.

To not give credence to all of this rhetoric just makes it speculation and bullshit. Is a. orange such a coward that he hides his identity behind a fake name?

People like me need help, not a god damn guessing game. My doctor is an AA fanatic and he makes me feel guilt by the day, the month, the year.

If a. orange had any balls at all he would help us, not hide behind some "ghost righter's" moniker.

How can someone be so critical of others and not divulge their identity.

I'd like to believe what a. orange says but he hides behind the same Anonimity that AA hides behind. He is a fool pretending to be a "guru".

He is worse than AA for his cowardice to tell us who he really is.

How can anyone believe a Chicken-shit who hides behind Bill and Bobs skirts?

Hello Steve,

I don't hide my real identity. I broke my anonymity a long time ago. See:

  1. orange-letters107.html#ID
  2. orange-letters110.html#ID
  3. orange-letters113.html#ID
  4. orange-letters116.html#ID
  5. orange-letters117.html#ID
  6. orange-letters119.html#ID
  7. orange-letters123.html#ID
  8. orange-letters126.html#ID
  9. orange-letters131.html#ID
  10. orange-letters132.html#ID
  11. orange-letters136.html#ID
  12. orange-letters140.html#ID
  13. orange-letters161.html#ID

Who am I? I have also answered that many times before. The most recent list of answers is here:

Then you complained that there isn't a "source" for my writings. The real sources are the sources from which I get the information, and I always give credits and citations.

Lastly, Steve, I don't think you will be cured by my revealing my real name, or kept sick by my anonymity. Your recovery is up to you, not me. Good luck, and take care of yourself. Oh, and the previous letter was all about recovery. It's worth a look.

And have a good day.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     You can either hold yourself up to the unrealistic
**     standards of others, or ignore them and concentrate
**     on being happy with yourself as you are.
**       ==  J. Jacques, Questionable Content webcomic, #352, 05-04-05

Date: Fri, June 25, 2010 5:11 am     (answered 3 July 2010)
From: "JIM"
Subject: Good job

I knew that AA was a scam and a lie from the gate. AA is a death cult: we have the suicides they help bring about and even worse we have millions of walking dead in their ranks — when they say "If you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths...." I used to say to NEVER be like them.

Actually, I found death from alcoholic delirium tremons much more appealing than listening to any of their bullshit stories, and most of them are pure bullshit — most definitely. I kept drinking because despite the agony of withdrawal I much prefered it to a single meeting with those kooks. This all lead to drinking pretty much all the time, morning, noon, and night — that way there were no hangovers, just one long continuous binge — but that always ends in a hospital stay for the DT's — been there too many times and always referred back to those clowns in AA as if they had a clue to begin with — so I decided to try it on my own and figured a system that worked out for me. That's it!

I can say ditto for almost everything you have said on this site and can back up every story you have written with equal or even worse stories than you've printed here.

I have been reading off your site for years, and directing others here, before that I thought I was alone in my observations about AA until I first found the Small Book, then I knew there were more people like me out there.... that was 15 years ago, so I suffered from 1984 through 1995, alone, knowing I was right but not finding a single soul who had a single bad thing to say about that horrible cult.

Of the people I knew well and was good friends with, who screwed up in one of the 12 step death cults, I can say that what they turned into was worse than something out of a horror movie. What's funny, and scary, some of them used to say when we were in high school partying that if they ever ended up in one of those meetings on their own that they wanted me to shoot them. To be honest, it didn't seem like a bad idea when it happened, and still doesn't to tell you the truth, but their deaths isn't worth my liberty.

Happily abstinent, productive, sane, and god free


Hi Jim,

Thank you for the letter and the good wishes. Congratulations on your sobriety. And you are most assuredly not alone. It is beginning to look like there are millions of us. We just don't have the propaganda machine that the 12-Step empire does. But we will get the truth out anyway.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     Happy the man, and happy he alone,
**     Who can call to-day his own:
**     He who, secure within, can say:
**     "To-morrow do thy worst, for I have liv'd to-day."
**        ==  HORACE, Odes, III, 29. (Dryden trans.)

[This letter is in response to this previous letter.]

Date: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:39 am     (answered 3 July 2010)
From: "DONDINI D."
Subject: RE: a book " the twelve precepts of AA"

Good Morning Orange,

The fact that you are not familiar with the "Twelve Precepts" of aa .........leads me to question your true nature, in your professed antagonism towards the true motives of the aa organization.

In the Twelve Precepts, The first Precept...........is to avoid conspicuous consumption that would bring attention to your immense wealth.

The second Precept.........states to always maintain the appearance of inner tranquility, never display the appearance of anger or argument in public. Always maintain a smile on you face, facial expression can reveal much to one who is adept. Remember to avoid conflicts, if there are problems remain calm, there are other parts of the organization that are trained to handle these types of issues.

After the description of the remaining Precepts, the authors describe how they were able to infiltrate the aa organization take control, and maintain control through successive generations while giving the illusion of democratically held elections for various positions and offices. They then continue to reveal that aa is one of many social, self-help organizations that have been infiltrated and added to the list of accumulated organizations.

They also describe how controlling the most vulnerable of society is just one of many systems that are under their control, that permeate the whole spectrum of society in this country as well as globally.

This book was obviously written for those who were recruited into the inner circle of trust.

Get the book and it is all laid out, I can't believe that this book is as descriptive as it is, the people who wrote it assumed that their power and control, which is the current manifestation of a centuries old lineage, is about to achieve its goal of world domination.

If you find the book all of what I am saying will become apparent.

If you are of them, then realize that the forces of light have accompanied you on this journey, I personally give a return of a thousand to one.

What is sent to me is returned to sender a thousand times, you send Love you get it back a thousand times

you send something else you get a return to sender magnified a thousand times.

I have it programed to automatic, I do not make a judgement, this is the unconscious attribute of myself.


Hello Frank,

That sounds very interesting, but also very paranoid. That book sounds for all the world like a new version of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which we were just discussing.

The Protocols was a forged document where some Jewish elders supposedly described in detail their plot of take over the world. This Precepts sounds like the same thing, except that it is apparently spoken by a different group of conspirators.

Nevertheless, I will have to check it out. It's too wacky to pass up.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**  "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped
**  in the flag, carrying a cross."
**      ==  Sinclair Lewis

6 July 2010: Interesting note:

Today, Lindsay Lohan was sentenced to 90 days in jail for violation of probation, and also to a 90-day drug and alcohol treatment program after jail.

What interests me is the question of what kind of treatment she will be getting. Will she just get 90 days of indoctrination in cult slogans and Dr. Frank Buchman's crazy religion? Will she come out of treatment parrotting nonsense like Tara Conner did? ("Everything that comes out of the mouth of an alcoholic or an addict is a lie.") This bears watching.

Date: Fri, June 25, 2010 7:46 pm     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "PJ"
Subject: Re: Thank You — more stuff

Hey Terrance,

Here is some more (super)food for thought.. I hope you publish it...

For years, I have worked on a superfood theory around alcohol addiction and cravings. To the body, alcohol is superfood. Meaning the amount of effort put into digestion and conversion is really low compared to the illusion of pure nutrient that is supplied. Alcohol is a very active solution and begins to go through the cell walls the instant it hits your lips. The warm sensation in the throat and stomach is the almost instant penetration of alcohol into the cell walls. It is immediately usable by the body and its affects can be felt in less than 5 minutes. "Feeling good, 10 feet tall and bulletproof" are direct observational results of ingestion of this superfood. Increased heart rate and vascular dilation also occur quickly. The superfood has arrived. The mind and all the cells in the body really love superfood and remember it with a highly positive memory tag. Even though it may create terrible reactions from over ingestion, it is still remembered as superfood by the entire system.

OK, follow me here. The body system is comprised of between 50-75 Trillion cells. The vast majority of them use the superfood and like it because it is sooo "highly refined" and easy to use. Each one of the 50-75 Trillion cells that use the superfood get to "vote" to the brain based on what the cell needs. Hunger and thirst are nothing more than the aggregate requests of cells to get their sustenance. Your brain knows the body is thirsty because the cells are requesting fluid.

So, when you overindulge on alcohol, not every cell in the body is adversely affected in the short run. The major internal organs are probably the most affected, because they come in direct contact with the toxin. That creates reactions like nausea and vomiting, etc. So, the directly affected areas may not request more superfood and may even report to the brain that it should stay away from it. However, the directly affected areas do not comprise the majority of votes for the entire system. The cells in your butt muscles and leg muscles didn't vomit last night and they are voting for more super food. Even the cells in the brain- even though accurate information processing was interrupted — still "likes" the purity of the superfood. It is the entire closed system and not just the brain that needs to be considered here. The brain is responsible for getting the body ( including "itself")what it needs to survive and the body is demanding more superfood. Relapse is a submission to a majority cell vote that is requesting superfood! It can seem like a powerful request, but it is just an internal request none the less. It is your system asking for superfood. It can be denied without adverse affects after detox. Just get the voters something else instead, or tell them a flat out NO! I have noticed that the cell/brain connection is interesting in that if the cells continue to request the superfood, the brain will devise ways to help the body fulfill the request. Like a part of the brain is the parent and there is a sneaky child trying to finagle some superfood for the requestors.

The reason there are triggers is because the "system" identifies when it is near the superfood, plus it can readily identify situations that have a high probability of creating the acquisition of superfood. It is a programmed response. The brain is a thinking machine after all and I can easily imagine a monologue that goes something like, "In the past, if there were severe emotional swings, we got superfood. Let's create an emotional swing and we are sure to get some superfood."" That boss is a real jerk isn't he? I feel terrible. Let's get some of that superfood stuff!" A craving is the result. In early sobriety almost any situation will be used as reasonable grounds for a superfood request.

It is not a spiritual malady that can only be arrested by God, clean moral living and spreading the word. It is your cells hard at work, doing what they do and responding to something that has been given them.

"Cunning, baffling and powerful" is nothing more than an internal request for superfood.


Hello again, VA,

Yes, I'll publish that, and thanks for the letter.

That's an interesting theory, and it has at least some basis in facts. I remember having heard of cellular craving for alcohol about 21 years ago. I haven't kept up with the latest studies of that subject, so I will have to check and see what is new in that area of investigation.

Still, I'm sure that there is at least one more level of logic laid on top of cellular craving. The brain gets a kick of dopamine creation from alcohol intoxication, and that feels very good. And the brain also learns that alcohol works as a pain killer. It will especially kill the pain of hunger, which includes cellular craving. And alcohol will also temporarily kill the pain from what alcohol and tobacco are doing to you. So you have a regular carrot-and-stick routine going on there: Pain and hunger push you to drink more alcohol, while desire for pleasure entices you to drink more alcohol. It takes some clear thinking and real willpower to resist both desires.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**  "We AA's have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically
**   speaking it is not a disease entity."
**      ==  Bill Wilson,
**      speaking to the National Catholic Clergy Conference On Alcoholism,
**           April 21, 1960, in New York

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 7:07 am     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "J."
Subject: Blissing out?

Hey Orange:

Read your latest batch of letters and never heard the term blissing out. Of course I've heard of what you've described, and when I was in AA I did a lot of it. When I was out I realized what it was, sacrosanct bullstuff slung in an attempt to make yourself look wiser than your years.

Appreciate you're still around and wondering if and when you're going to upgrade the site to wordpress or drupal.

Keep questioning

*Note if you publish please withhold the name.

Hi again, J.,

The first time I heard the term "blissing out" was in the movie "Sunseed", in 1975, which featured a whole bunch of new age spiritual teachers, both foreign and domestic (most of whom turned out to be phonies in the following 20 or 30 years). Yogi Bhajan was teaching yoga exercises, and commanded, "No blissing out!" when people were getting an energy rush from doing the yoga. Unfortunately, Bhajan was also one of the despicable phonies.

Still, I remember that movie fondly, and am thankful for the few teachers who stayed true: Pir Villayat Khan, Sufi Sam, Baba Ram Dass, Lama Govinda. Not a very long list, huh?

I recall a line about, "Many are called, and few are chosen." And then there are the injunctions about false prophets and fake messiahs...

Yes, I'm working on getting Drupal going as a forum. I just discovered last night that I have the whole system, but no manual or handbook. So I have a bunch of tinker-toy pieces and no idea how to put them together and make them work right. So I'm off to the library to download the manual.

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by
**     its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which
**     blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."
**        == Dresden James

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 8:40 am     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "Mona Lisa S."
Subject: The AMA's first take on the Big Book

Hi Orange,

I don't know if you'd run across this before; if not, I thought you'd like to see it. It's a review of the Big Book that appeared in JAMA in 1939 when the book first came out — and it's quite interesting to read what the good doctors thought of AA before they realized they could get paid for prescribing it!


Vol. 113(16), October 14, 1939
ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS. The story of how more than one hundred men have recovered from alcoholism. Cloth. Price $3.50. 400 pp.. New York: Works Publishing Company. 1939.

The seriousness of the psychiatric and social problem represented by addiction to alcohol is generally underestimated by those not immediately familiar with the tragedies in the families of victims or the resistance addicts offer to any effective treatment. Many psychiatrists regard addiction to alcohol as having a more pessimistic prognosis than schizophrenia. For many pears the public was beguiled into believing that short courses of enforced abstinence and catharsis in "institutes" and "rest homes" would do the trick, and now that the failure of such temporizing has become common knowledge, a considerable number of other forms of quack treatment have sprung up. The book under review is a curious combination of organizing propaganda and religious exhortation. It is in no sense a scientific book, although it is introduced by a letter from a physician who claims to know some of the anonymous contributors who have been "cured" of addiction to alcohol and have joined together in an organization, which would save other addicts by a kind of religious conversion. The book contains instructions as to how to intrigue the alcoholic addict into the acceptance of divine guidance in place of alcohol in terms strongly reminiscent of Dale Carnegie and the adherents of the Buchman ("Oxford") movement. The one valid thing in the book is the recognition of the seriousness of addiction to alcohol. Other than this; the book has no scientific merit or interest.

Hello Mona Lisa,

Yes, isn't that a hoot? The reviewer really nailed it — the A.A. book is just "organizing propaganda and religious exhortation". The reviewer even recognized that A.A. was just a copy of Frank Buchman's "Oxford Group" cult religion.

I have to wonder, "Who got bribed?" How did we go from that review to the current goofy AMA definition of "alcoholism, the disease that isn't caused by drinking alcohol"? — a definition that was written for the AMA by two A.A. front groups...

Oh well, have a good day anyway. The sun is shining, and summer is here, and I love it — even if the East coast is roasting. Sorry about that.

== Orange

*              [email protected]      *
*           AA and Recovery Cult Debunking   *
*           http://www.Orange-Papers.org/    *
**      How many diseases does modern medicine treat
**      with a "spiritual cure"?
**      If you get cancer, does the doctor tell you
**      to join the Pentecostals and speak in tongues?
**      If you get diabetes, is the fix to join the
**      Mormons and eat chocolate cakes?
**      So why, if you get "alcoholism", should you join
**      Alcoholics Anonymous and conduct séances to
**      hear the voice of God giving you work orders?

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 2:39 pm     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "Sharon L."

I completely agree with everything you have to say about AA. I hate those people, there fucking crazy. I don't need to go to a bunch of meetings. How long did it take you to come up with this amazing inventory of AA?

Also I was wondering if you still drink?

Yea, I don't need meeting, I'll just stay at home and beat my fucking wife. I am sitting here writing you with a beer in one hand and the other typing you while I occasionally scratch my balls.

Ok. To be truthful, you obviously have a deep psychological problem and should seek psychiatric attention immediately. You have deep seeded resentments that the twelve steps of alcoholic anonymous could help you with.

Good luck, dumb ass....

Hello Sharon,

Thanks for the letter and the good wishes.

I've been working on the web site for over 9 years now.

I don't drink alcohol at all any more. I have 9 1/2 years off of alcohol, tobacco, and any other drugs. That is 9 1/2 years of perfect sobriety: Not one sip or one puff or anything. Espresso coffee is my biggest drug kick nowadays.

Why is your life nothing but a choice between "Go to a cult religion meeting, or stay home and beat my lesbian wife?" Isn't there anything else that you can do with your life?

And Sharon, I don't think you really have balls to scratch, now do you?

Oh well, have a good day anyway.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**    "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very
**    short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.'
**    And God granted it."
**       ==  Voltaire (1694—1778)

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 4:14 pm     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "Kathleen M."
Subject: organization of a.a

Hi Orange,

Thank you for your wonderful website. Thank you, thank you. It is only because of you that I have any way of responding to those who think I should attend a.a. to protect my (19 years of) sobriety, or who think I should send my teenage son to meetings.

I'm curious as to what type of 501C3 organization A.A. is? I can't find it on the web. What I mean is that there are various categories under which you can organize yourself as a non-profit: education, religion, social group, etc.

Which of those is A.A. organized as?


Hello Kathleen,

Thanks for the compliments, and I'm glad to hear that you are doing well.

That is a good question. I'll have to research that. The "General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous" Form 990 filings just say that A.A. is a "501(c)" organization. Look here.

Readers: any ideas?

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     "A.A., as such, ought never be organized;..."
**       ==  William G. Wilson, A.A. "Tradition 9"

Date: Sat, June 26, 2010 7:17 pm     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: Bob O.
Subject: not a disease

Mister T,

Please read

This machine is beyond my few remaining brain cells — I hope I get through this time

Long Island Bob O.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the link. Yes, it came through this time. That is quite an article, isn't it?

And I have to agree. "Alcoholism" is not a disease. It is behavior, a bad habit, just like the bad habit of sitting on the couch and feasting on greasy potato chips, sugar cookies, and sweet soda pop all day long, until Morbid Obesity sets in. (And that will wreck your health and kill you too.)

And what about cigarette smoking? That is even deadlier than alcohol abuse, and yet, not even the crazy A.M.A. defines cigarette smoking as "nicotinism, the spiritual disease that is characterized by smoking cigarettes".

Have a good day.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     If alcoholism is really a disease, then A.A. sponsors are
**     guilty of practicing medicine without a license. They are
**     also guilty of treating a life-threatening illness without
**     having any medical education or training.  They have never
**     gone to medical school, and never done an internship or
**     residency, and yet they presume to be qualified to make
**     life-or-death decisions in the patients' treatment. That
**     is what you call quackery.

Date: Sun, June 27, 2010 4:55 am     (answered 7 July 2010)
From: "Beth"
Subject: Martha

Hi Orange,

Welcome back. I'm pleased to read you have found a place to live and answering letters again.

I have a few suggestions for Martha in California. First, check SMART meetings for f2f and online contacts. Second, call Thomas Hovarth director of SMART Recovery in San Diego.

I don't know if Hovarth will attempt to sell services or offer referrals. I do know he has experience with the California courts, aiding through letters and appearances in court for those who wish to avoid 12 step treatment.

If Martha feels she needs emotional support, there are several of us in the X Steppers Group happy to help.

Best regards,


Hi Beth,

Thank you for the message. I'll pass it on.

And for the information of everybody in general, the URL of the X-steppers is:

Have a good day now.

== Orange

*             [email protected]        *
*         AA and Recovery Cult Debunking      *
*          http://www.Orange-Papers.org/      *
**     The less reasonable a cult is, the more men seek to establish it by force.
**         —  Jean Jacques Rousseau

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Last updated 14 January 2015.
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